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Post by bazzaboy on Jan 4, 2007 19:48:35 GMT 1
The problem with refs getting involved with chatter on here we are seen to be protecting each other. If I was to reply to the things said about myself it would not be good reading which is why I hold back on my responses. As the man in the middle says if we were in it for the money it works out in the region of £3:50 per hour most Saturdays. All that for the abuse we take from the so called fans that know all the laws so well. Yes we are human and make mistakes and some of us are big enough to admit to this, if you were only to ask us nicely to explain our decisions after a game and we would do our best to try and explain them. I know some of you will say thats all some of us are worth but it does seem that in my opinion its a good job we do it for the pleasure not for the financial benefits. I do the pitch inspections for cogenhoe and take into consideration the clubs thought on the matter as well as the long term implications of playing the game as well as the traveling teams need to know for obvious reasons. Off my high horse now a pleasure reading some of the items on here and very informative at times If games are played some officials try and get them finished if they can to try to stop all the re-arranging of fixtures and travel. I'm not sticking up for other referees but I would look at the safety of players and officials alike before I would play a game. I was at raunds v cogenhoe last week and was surprised that the game continued after half time as it absolutely teemed down.
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Post by ianh on Jan 4, 2007 20:29:43 GMT 1
Well said Bazza, people sometimes dont realise if it werent for referees, there would be no game, or there would be a stand in ref from one side or the other (look at the trouble club linesman cause). Officials do get it wrong sometimes, usually at least once in a match ;D But we are all human, and I certainly wouldnt want your/their job None of us are in it for the money, just wish players would keep their mouths shut so it doesnt cost them or the cllub money
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Post by grassroots on Jan 4, 2007 20:53:37 GMT 1
Then there are the implications towards the pitch which everyone has mentioned. Whether or not the groundsman will get it playable for our home game on Saturday remains to be seen but I doubt it wil be playable for weeks after what it looked like come 90 minutes. I think the game might be called of this weekend against Long Buckby as they have called all training sessions off this weekend. I will phone just before on Saturday to double check myself. nptfcadmin.proboards23.com/index.cgi?board=clubAn&action=display&thread=1167924762&page=1Exactly what i wanted to say NPTFCFan1 but i thought it would sound like sour grapes. I noticed when Joe Ramscar just simply turned slowly his foot took a massive gouge out of the pitch. Also the Wellingborough keeper was trying to push the water away with his foot from the goal mouth area, maybe he thought it should of been called off. But then again if it was Newport 4-0 up at half time i might be thinking differently? I like to think i wouldnt as the players safety should be in mind.
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Post by love2hateme on Jan 5, 2007 16:21:51 GMT 1
Well said bazza, we as referees go out on a saturday/midweek because we enjoy being the men in the middle and speaking for myself i love the banter between players and myself. Getting on to the water logged pitches i agree with bazza in that my first thought is of players safety as im my opinon that should be top of the list, i normally take a ball out with me and that tells me alot as in is the ball going to roll more than two feet etc...(also take into account how dirty my boots are going to get!) As most people would agree that us refs can never win most of the time because one team wants to carry on and the other team doesnt, at the end of the day its down to the referee to decide if a game should be called off not groundsmen, managers or players. I think most of the refs that i know have at least half a brain and would/should come to the right decision. Also just want to add that the refs have a website as well and probley spend there time posting on there that might be why there is so few that post on the chatter.
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Post by skip on Jan 5, 2007 21:17:03 GMT 1
The whole point with is, and no disrespect to the good referees, they are not held accountable for their actions. Unfortunately, there are a few out there who are very cavalier or bloody minded in their actions. As we all know should anyone outside of sport fail in their duty of care then they are negligent and can be sued for damages. Yet here we are in a situation of someone in the middle who could be incompetent is responsible for well being of the players and the club's property and no redress what so ever for their actions. Its utter nonsense there must be some sort of accountability because is the only way the refereeing and the quality of game will improve. Obviously, the result of the game is not a issue here, but for the safety and looking after people's property why not? Last Saturday it was bloody obvious that certain games should have been abandoned and they weren't. Perhaps the thought of bill for damages would knock some sense into some people.
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Post by knowitall on Jan 6, 2007 11:25:15 GMT 1
Perhaps the thought of bill for damages would knock some sense into some people. Skip, I think you may be in danger of opening a whole new can of worms here, and adding another strand to what is already becoming an all-too-litigious society. If my memory serves me adequately, referees who are properly registered and members of the Referee's Association, and are officiating in a game that comes under the governance of the FA, ARE insured by the RA for liability like this. However, if this route were to be pursued in an increasing number of instances, then the reality would be that here would be an even greater reluctance for people to qualify as refs, exacerbating the already critical shortage, and the cost to the clubs would increase as the risk of litigation was mitigated. I feel football is better served by letting the current status quo trundle on, as it appears to be the lesser of two evils. And I've just noticed that an anagram of "evils" is "Elvis" - uh ha ha.
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Post by skip on Jan 6, 2007 14:27:32 GMT 1
ops sorry and I agree with you 'knowitall'., not a good can of worm to open, but I do have a point with referees seemly untouchable. What I want to know is what are the guidelines or standards or benchmarks used to decide whether or not a game is played or is there this ominous Grey area? At times I think the laws of the game are a grey area Enlightenment please
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Post by love2hateme on Jan 6, 2007 14:50:06 GMT 1
untouchable refs.....i think not. As a referee you should know if a pitch is playable or not, when you qualify as a referee you are advised on these matters but as i said before it is down to the referee and what he/she thinks is playable. Try not to class all refs in the same ball park as each other because we all know that two refs are never the same.
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Post by skip on Jan 6, 2007 16:27:32 GMT 1
when you qualify as a referee you are advised on these matters but as i said before it is down to the referee and what he/she thinks is playable
There we go as I thought no point of reference whats so ever, how irresponsible is that?
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Post by maninthemiddle on Jan 6, 2007 18:12:01 GMT 1
Skip, refer to my post earlier in this thread for some guidlines as to what's playable and what's not. It's not, of course, an exhaustive list - Ford Sports called a game off earlier this season as there was no running water in the ground, thus presenting a helath and safety hazard - but it's a good start.
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Post by skip on Jan 7, 2007 19:37:35 GMT 1
Look I'm not out to ref bash here, all I want to know is what constitute a abandonment of a game? What guidelines are drawn on to give the referee that important knowledge to decide? I fear there isn't any by the sounds of it!
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Post by ianh on Jan 7, 2007 21:29:13 GMT 1
I think its called common sense and discretion with a dash of experience. we are all human and all make mistakes/bad judgements but if you look at it in the cold light of day They make a lot more good ones than bad ones
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Post by nptfcfan1 on Jan 8, 2007 12:06:29 GMT 1
I've been searching for some evidence to back me up but as yet haven't managed to find anything. However, back in my days of Junior football refereeing I seem to recall the rules beeing something along the lines of - Large area's of surface water forming on the pitch & also something about the ball being able to roll properly when kicked from the half way line to the 18 yard line..
I'll keep searching.
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Post by love2hateme on Jan 8, 2007 12:14:33 GMT 1
when you qualify as a referee you are advised on these matters but as i said before it is down to the referee and what he/she thinks is playableThere we go as I thought no point of reference whats so ever, how irresponsible is that? so how it that irresponsible skip, it should be straight forward...does the ball roll on the pitch, players safety, state of the pitch and how it will affect the calling off of games i.e the next home game. Who do you think should call the games off then? Groundsmen ? managers ? If you left it to people at the club the games would be called off when the pitch is playable, dont get me wrong i know that games should of been called off weekend of the 30th but one referee doesnt make the mind up of the rest of us
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Post by skip on Jan 8, 2007 13:50:58 GMT 1
Dodgyref [/quote]
so how it that irresponsible skip, it should be straight forward...does the ball roll on the pitch, players safety, state of the pitch and how it will affect the calling off of games i.e the next home game. Who do you think should call the games off then? Groundsman ? managers ? [/quote][/i] If these are the criteria for calling the game off then thats all well and good, but again it is still open for interpretation by the referee.
also nptfcfan's - Large area's of surface water forming on the pitch & also something about the ball being able to roll properly when kicked from the half way line to the 18 yard line... This would have called Raunds game off straight away if this was used.
No I would not want ground persons or managers calling games off for the same reasons you gave. OK I'll drop the irresponsible bit, but there does need to be clarity would you agree with that Dodgyref?
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