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Post by lincolnroadstone on Jan 3, 2007 20:29:35 GMT 1
I was just wondering if any of the Match Officials from last saturday's abandoned and completed games would like to visit the grounds that they were officiating at and help the Groundman repair the damage done to his club's pitch. It's long been a bone of contention of mine that Referees are there for one game, while we (the Clubs) are there for a whole season. Our Official at St Neots, Mr Colby I think, consulted no less than three different sets of people over a 20 minute period without once consulting the person that knows his surface the best. He finally decided enough was enough, no doubt got his fee and went home, to visit somewhere else this week. I know that the people at Holbeach (who finished and won) and the people at Raunds (who finished and lost) were absolutely disgusted with the attitudes of their respective Referees towards the state of the pitch. Please feel free to comment, even if only to tell me to get off my soap box!
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Post by pyromaniac on Jan 3, 2007 21:12:50 GMT 1
I recall at the start of St Neots' match Rob (the groundsman) saying to the referee along the lines of... "feel free to call it off whenever you like" ...as it had started raining.
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Post by intheknow on Jan 3, 2007 21:37:27 GMT 1
I was at Long Buckby v Wootton game first the game should not have started second the ball was never moving that well in the middle there was puddles all over the pitch players tackled thhen continued slidding for many yards by half time the pitch was destroyed the ref called a halt to it and believe it or not certain people still moaned about a game being called off that should never off started
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Post by doughboyhaydn on Jan 3, 2007 21:55:40 GMT 1
Its never nice when games are called off but at the end of the day players safety must come first. When you play in conditions as bad as they have been just lately you risk players getting injured and if you haven,t got the biggest of squads and are in a low position by playing one game you could risk your whole season being in jeapordy just for one game, especially if 2 or more players get injured. And of course your pitch could well be ruined for a long while.
Haydn
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Post by ianh on Jan 3, 2007 22:33:28 GMT 1
Its never nice when games are called off but at the end of the day players safety must come first. When you play in conditions as bad as they have been just lately you risk players getting injured and if you haven,t got the biggest of squads and are in a low position by playing one game you could risk your whole season being in jeapordy just for one game, especially if 2 or more players get injured. And of course your pitch could well be ruined for a long while. Haydn I think you have missed the point there Haydn, everybody realises player safety must come first. Whats being said is most of the games shouldnt have started in the first place. players safety was being compromised (in most cases) at kick off
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Post by doughboyhaydn on Jan 3, 2007 22:40:42 GMT 1
Probably Ian, its been a long day mate. haydn
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Post by maninthemiddle on Jan 3, 2007 22:45:40 GMT 1
Interesting points here - Lincolnroadstone, I think it's a touch harsh to basically accuse the officials concerned of not caring if irreperable damge is caused to your pitch, I'm sure that's not the case.
I'm a UCL Prem referee (pause for booing and hissing!) and I have only ever abandoned two games - One at Long Buckby this season due to floodlight problems, and one at Woodford v Spencer last season at half-time. The latter was abandoned as, in my opinion, the pitch had become unsafe to play on.
The referee has several things to consider when deciding whether a game should start or alternatively be abandoned. The first and most important of these is the safety of the participants.
The second is the potential quality of the game - as we all saw so spectacularly at Watford last week, if the ball is holding up then there really is no point in playing.
Thirdly, the referee has to consider the people who have paid money to watch the game! The pitch itself may be perfectly playable but if it's so foggy that the spectators can't see from one side to the other then that also has to be a consideration.
As harsh as it may seem, the condition of the pitch at the end of the game does not fall within the remit of the match referee, so long as he has ensured that during the ninety minutes it has been safe for all that have used it.
Also bear in mind it is never an easy decision to abandon a game. Invariably, you have one team that wants to play and one that doesn't, particularly if you want to abandon it second half with one team 3-0 up. Just look at the Cobblers last weekend - unsurprisingly, the Millwall boss thought the pitch was still fine!
One final point that I must mention - there have been a couple of comments regarding referees "taking their fee" from games that have been abandoned or not started, implying in some way they are doing this job purely for the money! For a UCL Prem game I will normally leave home at 12.30pm and rarely get home before 6.30pm often for less than £30....If we needed the money that badly then I'm sure Tesco's pay more! We all do it because we enjoy it, and I'm sure no officials take pride in calling off or abandoning games.
This message isn't intended to be a referee biting back, far from it. I am a big fan of UCL football and I regularly log onto here and the websites of individual clubs to keep up to date with all the latest news (and to check if anyone's having a pop at me!). I have long been an advocate of referees being far more open and honest and that's what we try to be, even if that's not always appreciated, and I hope my comments shed some light on this subject.
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Post by doughboyhaydn on Jan 3, 2007 22:55:39 GMT 1
Fair play to you maninthemiddle for your views, its nice to get feedback from referees. Its an endless task being a referee, as someones always going to moan about something, me included. It would be good for the forum if more refs voiced their views and could prove an interesting debate.
haydn
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Post by maninthemiddle on Jan 3, 2007 23:01:00 GMT 1
Agreed Haydn, I'm happy to clarify things from a referee's view on pretty much any subject!
It would be inappropriate for me to comment on specific individuals or incidents, but in general terms I can only see the two way flow of information being a positive thing.
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Post by ianh on Jan 3, 2007 23:30:22 GMT 1
I can only see the two way flow of information being a positive thing. We used to have The Whistler and DodgyRef on here but neither have been heard of since last summer (Could have been promoted?)
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Post by maninthemiddle on Jan 3, 2007 23:46:08 GMT 1
I think the problem is the league would, quite rightly, frown upon referees being drawn into protracted discussions with supporters of UCL teams on specific incidents. Therefore, I would imagine most referees are reluctant to use a facility such as this, but as long as conversation is kept in general terms I don't see it being a problem.
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Post by nptfcfan1 on Jan 4, 2007 11:13:33 GMT 1
I'm glad somebody else brought this up as I was thinking about doing it myself but was reluctant due to the fact we were 4-0 down at half time and may have been accused of sour grapes Anyway, I would love to hear our officials comments on why the game was not postponed at half time. The conditions were probably the worst I've seen in my 20+ years of watching grassroots football (I'm not exaggerating). There were massive puddles scattered around the pitch and from where I stood Wellingboro's second goal looked to be going wide only for it to stick in a puddle in the 6 yard box to be tapped home by the forward. Whilst trying to regain some of the feeling in my arms and legs in the clubhouse at half time it continued to lash down and a huge puddle (lake) at least 2 or 3 inches deep had formed on the path connecting the bar to the pitch. I took one look and expected it to be called off and I believe I read in another thread one of the Wellingborough fans made the Journey home at this point expecting the same. I can only imagine the reprocussions had a player got seriously injured and had to lay in one of the puddles for 20 minutes waiting for an ambulance to arrive, and how the poor paramedics would of negotiated a strecher to the injured party, worst case senario I know but conditions could easily have seen this happen. Then there are the implications towards the pitch which everyone has mentioned. Whether or not the groundsman will get it playable for our home game on Saturday remains to be seen but I doubt it wil be playable for weeks after what it looked like come 90 minutes.
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Post by uclspotter on Jan 4, 2007 11:34:20 GMT 1
I think the problem is the league would, quite rightly, frown upon referees being drawn into protracted discussions with supporters of UCL teams on specific incidents. Therefore, I would imagine most referees are reluctant to use a facility such as this, but as long as conversation is kept in general terms I don't see it being a problem. I think you have to be careful maninthemiddle - we don't have to go too far back to see some of your brethren digging themselves big holes by being too specific.
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Post by footydoctordave on Jan 4, 2007 12:43:51 GMT 1
Or indeed, spotter, others wrongly accusing referees of misdemeanours, based on bias and some obviously humerous comments taken way out of context.
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Post by nextseason on Jan 4, 2007 14:49:42 GMT 1
cannot see any referees, taking this up, their knowledge of grounds and maintenance are varied to the extreme.
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