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Post by pat on Jan 11, 2012 23:14:12 GMT 1
Out of interest I've just done a quick (OK it took a bit of doing..LOL) comparison of Boston Town's current season mileage as to what it would be travelling to the NCEL's current Premier Division teams. Works out at 1119.6 miles UCL and 1697.8 NCEL, some 578.2 miles extra. What was the average quoted?!
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Post by jeffl on Jan 11, 2012 23:25:33 GMT 1
Does anyone know of any precedent where the FA has rearranged a league and the affected clubs have received compensation? I have a niggling memory that there has been such a case but can't find any reference to it.
I personally hope that we can use next Thursday at Raunds to contsruct a unified response to the FA that we all sign up to - a tall order but achievable if we all really want to win. We can all then go to Leicester to deliver the message to the FA in person.
The additional financial burden and travel times are not what we have all been part of nor what we have invested in, nor what our league has been building/operating and are not therefore acceptable without significant and tangible guaranteed compensation which I think is highly unlikely. I can see a line of lawyers all eager to demonstrate that there has been commercial loss and disadvantage to the league and its member clubs. I wonder if the league has insurance to cover and pursue such damage to business - just a thought?
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Post by jeffl on Jan 12, 2012 13:44:31 GMT 1
Ok I have some numbers for Yaxley and by now each club should have received their changes to travel.
Very interesting facts but the FA may just say "So what?"
In every argument there has to be a counter position - that's what we need or else we just make noise.
I know that several people who have dedicated yeasr of their perosnal time to clubs and the league are at a loss as to why and how this should happen and have said they will leave football.
Based on the info received this morning, the proposed changes are probably putting another 20-25,000 miles of travelling (petrol + time) across the whole league membership - totally rediculous - maybe there's some traction there with local MP's and government ministers - even the regional/national TV!
The league and its member clubs have to have a counter proposal that can be seen to be workable - even if its just leave things the way they are - we have to be able to objectively justify and support the rationale.
We need media exposure to show air our concerns and put pressure on those that haven't though this through - i.e. the FA - come on Jeremy, let's get a plan of attack together to take to the TV and Radio.
What are the facts and figures from the national FA - are ther any? What do our county FA bodies think?
Lots of room for challenging the FA I think. Hope everyone turns out Thursday at Raunds. Jeff
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Post by railwatcher on Jan 12, 2012 14:25:00 GMT 1
Great posts jeff, we need this kind of spirit, be assured the Management Committee is as keen as you to see this resolved, it is fighting believe me! There are reasons why things have seem a little quiet, key personnel of ours abroad on holiday, but massive amounts of work being done.
Please be aware we had a gagging order until Tuesday, The FA insisted on confidentiality for as long as possible, under the circumstances clearly we could not be seen to breech their wishes, but why did the media leak this before the UCL Management Committee were told and why couldn't clubs be advised? I certainly wasn't to inform the UCL family!
To hell with their confidentiality to suit their agenda, we need to fight.
Accurate facts and figures are needed, any good ones feed to any UCL Management person before their Monday meeting please, we have one of the Step 5 committee coming to speak! Remember although this affects Step 5, we have no voting powers, all from the big w*ll**s above, so we cannot expect any rationale from there.
Did we know that across Step 5 they are proposing an additional 124k miles travelling for teams within the competition, 5 cars per team = 611k total miles, excluding any supporters/committee cost - over quarter of a million quid! Has anyone got an environmental policy or sustainability plan at work, apparently not The FA and all its wise words - that's one for the MP's and Ministers.
Oh I forgot, we are in a recession - doh!
And clubs make your own County FA take notice and object too! They are there to represent clubs no toe party lines.
Jeff you seem to me like a bit of a big drum band leader keep up the good work! Your beating well baby!
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Post by ianh on Jan 12, 2012 16:56:50 GMT 1
Dont forget all this is to combat a situation that has only arisen once in the last 10 years!! I havent got an ideal solution but ones I have heard and seen bandied about are
Have 3 relegation places down from each step 4 league - 3x6 = 18 not a hardship as there are 4 from the step 3 leagues above,
run 1 step 4 league with 23 teams, which is done most seasons anyway
or have step 5 playoffs
a hell of a lot cheaper and no needless travel levied
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Post by jeffl on Jan 12, 2012 17:32:03 GMT 1
I hope that many of you can take a moment to read this post and more importantly, please feel free to forward it on to anyone (including media networks) that you may have contact with. I would love to get the Minister for Sport and Olympics down to our league meeting with press and TV Media in attendance to explain and convince us all just how the FA are achieveing his goals and even their own recently published National Game Straegy.
The current FA proposal to carve up and abolish the United Counties League Premier Division is poorly conceived, poorly researched and will put grassroots football back for many years ... just the opposite of what the Minister for Sport and Olympics intends.
18th May 2010 - The new Minister for Sport and Olympics, Hugh Robertson MP, today set out his three key priorities. Hugh Robertson said:
“I’m delighted to have been appointed as Sport and Olympics Minister, a job I have shadowed for the past five years. With the World Cup bid well underway and the Olympics on the horizon, it’s an incredibly exciting time to get this job.
“I have three very clear priorities; to do everything in my power to win the World Cup bid, help to deliver a successful 2012 Olympics and through that drive a sporting legacy. I can’t wait to get started.” Hugh Robertson was appointed to the role on Friday 14th May and will be a Minister at the Department for Culture, Media and Sport.
1st December 2011 - Growing the grassroots game – Hugh Robertson – Minister for Sport and Olympics
Football is our national sport and is a big part of daily life. Whether it’s watching, playing or supporting our favourite teams, football is in our blood.
For many of us, a love of football begins when we’re young, so I’m very pleased that The Football Association, in its National Game Strategy launched today, is using the next four years to focus on strengthening and growing the grassroots game from the earliest ages – and in doing so aims to provide “a positive football experience for all”.
Bold words and grand intentions from those who set the objectives and policies.
But do they realise that their minions are proposing reckless and poorly conceived restructuring that will cause the break-up of a core league, incur approx 25,000 miles of additional travel and hundreds of hours on the road for its current member clubs – all in a time of belt tightening and carbon footprint reduction. And that doesn’t even take into account the Reserves teams and the youth teams that everybody from the top says they want to grow.
From information released to leagues and County FA’s, it appears that there are only two key objectives for this butchery and wanton disregard for common sense and pragmatism as the FA attempts to address an anomaly that rarely occurs.
How in the name of all that is Holy can the FA even pretend that they have though their proposals through and yes, “They are only proposals and seeking consultation from the membership” but attendees at Burton last weekend from County FA’s and Member Leagues all say that in spite of questions, suggestions and counter ideas from the floor, the FA refused to entertain them, hardly an encouraging sign.
At the moment, the whole proposal appears to be little more than a fundamentally flawed and wholly unjustifiable reaction to a infrequent problem that has been explained to me as something that may occur once in a blue moon and could anyhow be resolved by changing the word “will” to “may” in the FA’s league promotion/relegation rules .
The abject misery and financial hardship imposed on the United Counties League member clubs is totally out of proportion to the situation and whilst my club is possibly one of those that could perhaps live with the imposition, there are many more that can’t and why should they suffer because our national body (i.e. the FA) has no understanding or feel for the grassroots clubs that the Minister claims to be “using the next four years to focus on strengthening and growing the grassroots game from the earliest ages – and in doing so aims to provide “a positive football experience for all”
Yes Minister, you’ve started a sporting legacy alright, hitting at the heart of grassroots football - a bloody good start wouldn’t you say?
Jeff Lenton
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Post by kevinb on Jan 12, 2012 18:19:29 GMT 1
Great post Jeff. I know that we are probably only concerned with our league, ie the UCL, but have we (UCL Management Committee) been made aware of any objections from the other Leagues regarding the increased costs. In ten of our Clubs cases that appears to be the Jewson League Clubs. How do Wroxham, Kirkley & Pakefield(Lowestoft), Gorleston etc feel about their increases? I'm sure that they will be as agrieved as we all are. Apart from the obvious increase in travelling for these ten Clubs, the Match Officials Fees in the Jewson are currently £45 Referee, £30 Assistants and 0.34p per mile travelling, compared to £30, £25 and 0.30p in the UCL. So that is automatically an increase of £25 per Home game + travelling costs. That equates to an extra £575 + travelling at the extra 0.04p per mile as we will be having 23 Home games in the proposed restructuring. I don't know about some of you but our Club I would still class as one of the "smaller" UCL Clubs and that is in no way being disrespectful to all of the hard workers and players that are punching far above their weight once again this season but we MUST do something to stop this butchery. I see that in a few months that Step 6 will be looked at, probably ruling out a "voluntary relegation" for many Clubs in a bid to live in the "real world". The FA still have access to millions of pounds, just look at some of the prima donas that "grace" Premier League pitches and boardrooms. Tell me when your local "big club" helped you out with a prestigious pre-season friendly, not a Youth team but the first team, probably never! Please don't just read all of these posts and think.....those four or five can do it for us..........this is the "Heads in the Sand FA" we're talking about, do something, anything, write to your FA, contact YOUR Club and see how you can help save the UCL. That stands for "UNITED" COUNTIES LEAGUE, that's what we must be.
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Post by railwatcher on Jan 12, 2012 19:40:37 GMT 1
Take time to evaluate the mess of the pyramid in terms of leagues the appear to feed the six leagues above, two county leagues with currently just 16 members and no step 6 below! The UCL is clearly being shafted.
And kevinb, first class rail travel to have bad dreamed ideas on there route to ivory towers, ooooh and a seat in the royal box at Wembley.
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Post by fozwaldo on Jan 12, 2012 21:35:41 GMT 1
Weren't the FA portrayed as a bunch of 'numpties' in the film "Mike Bassett - England Manager"?
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Post by sg on Jan 12, 2012 22:01:46 GMT 1
Apparently the F A spokesman Mike Appleby was on the BBC London "Non-League Show' on Tuesday, he said 8 of the 14 leagues were in favour of the reduction when initially asked, 4 against with 2 undeceided. He also said the changes may not go ahead if there is a strong feeling against from step 5 clubs. I trust all our representatives at the regional meeting will let them know exactly what they think!
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Post by pat on Jan 12, 2012 22:41:42 GMT 1
Great posts by Jeff, Railwatcher, sg, Ian and Kevin. Referring back to my earlier post the eagle eyed amongst you will have realised that the Googlemaps Directions mileages I worked out are of course only one way. It means that we all are probably looking at 1,000 miles extra travel if we get shunted into so-called "neighbouring" leagues...
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Post by ianh on Jan 13, 2012 0:17:55 GMT 1
The club allocations, rationale? and maps, that were given to us at Burton can be found here www.scribd.com/danjyork/shelf and the post on Tony kempster accompanying it shows that other clubs feel just as agrieved 'That's my view and likely to be the board view at Fisher. I think a united front that of clubs stating very clearly that they do not want the restructure unless it is tied to an increase in promotion and relegation would have some chance of having an impact. We will be sending the FA a formal written response and publishing it. A true consultation publishes responses but it isn't clear that this is a true consultation, so we're better off doing it ourselves. I'd urge other clubs to do the same, regardless of whether they are for or against it. At least then we can really see what the spread of views looks like.
The current plans reduce the available promotion spots for CoCo, Sussex and Kent clubs from 3 to 2.
Step 4 just has to relegate more sides. It would help both levels - Step 5 leagues can go years without seeing a new club from above, and it leads to stagnation at both levels.'
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Post by Lankie on Jan 13, 2012 10:25:09 GMT 1
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Post by sg on Jan 13, 2012 14:05:55 GMT 1
Some interesting average distances in all the current and proposed step 5 leagues on the Hellenic League website: www.hellenicleague.co.uk/pages/leaguereorg_jan2012.htmlI would think most if not all current UCL clubs would have a higher than average distance in the new set ups as we will all be toward the edge of one or other of them.
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Post by jeffl on Jan 13, 2012 15:11:22 GMT 1
Current + proposed mileage table plus estimated additional travel costs for UCL clubs - Complete table for league now on our website home page www.yaxleyfc.comThese are just mileage related figures - no additional time allowances etc - some journeys will be 2-3 hours minimum. The FA says additional travel times will help prepare clubs for next level - forgot it was pantomime season! Jeff
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